5.27.2009

Poeschl, Palmeri - Caucus or Open Meeting Violation?

Last night, the Oshkosh Common Council selected a new member.

In a long process Harold Buchholz was selected on the first ballot with 4 of the needed 6 votes.

The process worked like this:

1. Presentations from candidates
2. Comments from citizens (there were none)
3. Council discussion
4. Council polling for candidate nomination

The council discussion worked like this:

1. Palmeri says he would select Buchholz
2. Tower selects Hintz
3. McHugh selects Buchholz
*4. Poeschl asks for a recess to think over his selection - selects Buchholz after.
5. King selects Hintz
6. Esslinger selects Buchholz
7. Buchholz wins 4-2

* Let's talk about the recess and review a few things about open meetings.

A negative quorum exists when enough members of the council have come together to block a vote outside of the open meeting. In this case, 4 votes were needed to pass the candidate. That means that 3 votes (out of the 6 councilors) could block the nomination of any of the candidates.

After Palmeri and McHugh selected Buchholz, they were in effect 'off the table'. However, when Poeschl asked for 5 minutes to think over his selection, he immediately began a discussion with Palmeri that lasted the entire break.

During this discussion, they repeatedly referred to Poeschl's notes. All of this took place off-camera and away from the eyes and ears of Oshkosh citizens.

In other words, it was against open meetings rules.

They created a negative quorum as soon as Poeschl decided to also support Palmeri's choice.

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Jef, do you actually have recorded dialogue between Poeschl and Palmeri? Just because Palmeri and Poeschl chatted means nothing. Give some real evidence - some quotes. Maybe Poeschl decided in the first minute, then chatted with an old friend (Tony)he hasn't chatted with for a while. I want proof Jef. I don't want more nagging and speculation because you dislike Tony Palmeri. You are constantly pinning Palmeri as a spoiler. Get over it. By the way, you did a good presentation for the council. Maybe you should run for council next time. Start campaigning, stop complaining.

Anonymous said...

Yes - I'm sure Poeschl took a break simply to chat with his friend.

If you believe that, I have some GM stock to sell you.

Anonymous said...

Jef's not the only one believing there was a violation of open meetings laws, but not just where those 2 are concerned.

Anonymous said...

There's no way Poeschl used the time to just chat with an old friend. He could have done that after the meeting and if he had his mind made up in the first minute, it wasn't that big of a decision for him after all and he could have asked that the recess came to an end, especially since it was called specifically for him to get his thoughts in order. He's a Palmeri clone and can't think for himself. What a disappointment.

Anonymous said...

Wow! You guys are Poeschl-haters here, huh? What if Poeschl really thinks Buccholz was the right guy? It could happen. Why aren't you calling Poeschl an Esslinger clone? Esslinger picked Buccholz, too. Do you really think Poeschl can't think on his own? Do you have any idea what conversations transpired between Poeschl and Palmeri? Buccholz is only temporary anyway. The elections will be soon enough and someone else will get voted in. I would love a clarification on open meetings laws, too. Anyone with legal jargon on what the councilors are allowed to do?

Mike Norton said...

Before we speculate-- lets just ask Bob Poeschl why he did what he did.

Anonymous said...

What would Palmeri say to the same situation if he wasn't involved. You better believe he would be makng a stink to high heaven.

Anonymous said...

My thoughts exactly! If Tony had seen something like that going on he would have raised a ruckus, complaining about violation of open meetings and walked out of the Council Chambers.

Anonymous said...

2:33, he didn't talk to Esslinger or McHugh during the break. He was talking to Palmeri. And yes, I believe he can't think on his own. Obviously others do too or there wouldn't be so much talk about it. If you want a clarification on open meetings laws, check with the state attorney general. Tony Palmeri used to know but might have forgotten it last night. Bottom line they can't be discussing these things privately. It must be done in the open. You know, transparent and such. Class dismissed.

CJ said...

I want to give them the benefit of doubt and allow for an explanation. Particularly because Tony Palmeri is the biggest champion of open government processes.

I will wait and see what they both have to say.

Anonymous said...

Biggest champion or biggest hypocrate?

Conservative View said...

All this Esslinger bashing.

And yet the same people whining about Paul Esslinger are also whining about our stagnant city.

A reminder that the progressives have had their hands on the throttle of progress (or the lack their of) in Oshkosh for 8-10 years, and yet not a lot of good has occurred. I say let Paul and his crew have a go at it. They certainly can't do any worse that the "progressive Oshkosh Crew"

Anonymous said...

Is this viewable anywhere on the internet?
I had heard about this on the Chief's blog, and felt I got the idea, but no. Reading this description of Jef's I felt a shock, This was DURING the meeting? like they just had a wee confab that no one else could hear while the rest of the room sat on their hands? I have NEVER NEVER heard of such a thing.

This is not a rhetorical question --> what the hell is wrong with Palmeri these days? He would never allow that from anyone else. No way. If I understand the scenario correctly, just whispering during the meeting like that would make him go nuts.
And re: that Donuthole up there making the first comment? is s/he really saying 2 council members just had a sudden urge to talk about the Packers and held up the meeting to do so? Even if that was true, it would still be insane. and I mean insane. I hope I misunderstood in some way. What is wrong with Palmeri?
and as if I don't have reason enough to bang my head, when did Palmeri stop being progressive? He's thrown his lot in with progressive-bashers now? Defends them come hell or high water (lol was that an Esslinger flood joke)?

But to say this stuff makes no sense is NOT gratuitous negativity. And why isn't the Northwestern going batty over the confab if it happened like that? Surely someone there observed it? I want to see this P and P Coffeetalk myself. YouTube it someone pleeeease!!!

Anonymous said...

Conservative needs a crash course in reading. The discussion is about Palmeri and Poeschl. HArdly anything was written about Esslinger. You're a whiner and a baby, loking for bashing where none exists. Go back to school and perhaps you'll grow up at the same time.

Anonymous said...

Jef you made a great presentation, you could be a strong candidate for the next ticket, but you seem to have taken a big gulp of the Esslinger Conspiracy Kool-Aid.

Don't join the Esslinger Bashers/Whiners club, you're better than that I think.

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Anonymous said...

Lets wait and see

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